VALIANT REVISITED--a candid interview with BOB LAYTON
What
year were the Gold Key properties acquired?
In addition to Turok,
Magnus,
and Solar, were any other titles from that stable also taken into
possession
by Valiant and nothing ever done with them?
(I remember some
Captain
Johner reprints done by Valiant...).
Bob:
Jim Shooter & Steve Massarsky had a relationship with the Big Wigs at
Western Publishing going into the start-up, so the rights had been secured
before we opened the doors. The deal included ALL properties in the Western
Publishing library, although we didn't avail ourselves of every title.
When did Valiant move into their NY office? What was it like around this
time
in the very beginning? How many
people were working for Valiant and
was
the energy like in these early days before any books even came out?
Bob:
We started up in '89, in a fifth floor loft in downtown Manhattan.
The place was a total rat-trap--literally.
One
afternoon, a rat gave birth to a litter inside of Shooter's sports jacket
pocket. I thought he was going to faint when he discovered it. We had about ten
people to start out with-and we shared the space with entertainment attorney
Lauren Davis, the daughter of record mogul Clive Davis, who worked with
Massarsky in representing recording artists.
From
the very beginning, we were operating behind the 8-ball. Jim surrounded himself
with people who were very loyal to him, but not big on hard work or making
deadlines. We (Production) were always breaking land speed records trying to get
product out--solicitations, mock-ups --regardless of what it was.
Super
Mario Bros Special Edition #1 - Valiant starts publishing Nintendo
comics.
Did the agreement to publish Nintendo (and WWF comics) come
before
or
after acquiring the Gold Key characters? If
it was after, why the
decision
to publish the Nintendo comics first? (Proof that I've been a
Valiant
fan from day one...I actually have a letter published in Super Mario
Bros
issue 2. Ah, my finest hour!) While I am aware that these comics did
well,
I have never been able to find print run numbers...just how successful
were
these comics and did it help pave the way for you as publishers for
Magnus and Solar?
Bob:
This was an interesting point in Valiant history.
I was brought in to handle the superhero line--only to find out that we
were going to sit on those properties and pursue Nintendo and WWF.
I argued with Shooter that those two audiences are notorious for not
reading--period. But they (upper management) had dollar signs in their eyes and
thought they could pull serious numbers from both franchises.
It
was a MAJOR miscalculation.
Valiant
couldn't give the damn things away. Not
only were they not very good, but as I predicted, video game fans actually hated
them. After millions of dollars were lost to those ill-conceived projects,
Shooter finally decided to go to the Gold Key properties, which now became a
last ditch effort to save the company from insolvency. Nine months into the
start-up, Triumph (the venture capitalists that funded Valiant) dismissed CFO
Winston Folkes and placed Fred Pierce (yes--the same Fred Pierce that now runs
Wizard) in our offices to spy on Jim's business activities and report back to
them. (they now had a crisis of confidence in Shooter's promises) In a repeat of
his history at Marvel, Shooter's relationship with upper management was already
in big trouble. They were incredibly upset that their investment money had gone
up in smoke and we weren't even out of the gate yet. Jim was spending incredible
sums of money but had nothing to show for it but a shitload of debt. Every day,
the staff lived under the threat of closure at a moment's notice.
Not a fun time.
Magnus
and Solar: Both titles premiere to decent numbers.
How were the
titles
received in the market by critics and fans alike?
How early were
spinoffs,
like Rai, planned and were they all conceived even before both
Magnus
and Solar hit the stands?
Bob:
Because we worked under the constant deadline threat, so much of the company's
title expansion was done totally on the fly--usually over dinner at Volare'--Jim
favorite restaurant in the Village. I look back at this and marvel at the
incredible lunacy of the publishing plan--we were literally making it up as we
went along.
What
was the energy like in the Valiant offices these days before Unity hit
and
as titles that would take quickly off like X-O and Harbinger hit?
In
probably
my lone Shooter question: Did having Jim Shooter write most of the
titles
at this time in any way hinder production of the books or was
everything
pretty much steadfast and out right on time?
Bob:
Most Valiant fans will not want to believe anything I say.
Jim has spun his fictional Valiant tale so many times, in so many venues,
that it's hard to get the truth past the revisionist history he's created.
However, unbeknownst to Shooter, I kept a daily journal of every event that
transpired at Valiant, from the day I started-- to the day I exited.
I can recall every day in vivid detail, thanks to those journals.
Jim
was the worst at making deadlines. I
mean--the worst I've ever worked with in 30 years of comics.
I
offer simple proof: One needs only to look at any Valiant art page, see the
pasted-up balloons and conclude that there must have been a reason for lettering
the pages that way.
There
was.
The
writing was always late. We pasted
up the lettering from overlays because it was always the last thing to be
completed.
He
was a classic procrastinator.
How
far ahead was Unity planned? Was it
one of those events that was
planned
since day one or was its conception something that sprung forth
after
more titles had come out? Unity #0
was free. I remember picking that
up
and thinking to myself "WOW! A FREE COMIC!"
I was already collecting
Valiants
so you didn't reel me in, but how do you think having that free
comic
out there affected sales?
Bob:
We were desperate to make an impact on the Direct Market. We were deeply in debt
to Triumph and need to turn things around quickly. Unity was the simplest answer
to the problem.
Again,
this wasn't a long term plan, but something dreamed up on the fly. Although it
was a nightmare to execute, it was successful in drawing positive attention to
the company. We were operating
under the "school yard pusher" theory--give them the first one free,
and once they're hooked--make 'em pay.
energy,
what was the office like as these books started reaching more
amazing
numbers month by month? How big did
Valiant's staff increase? What
innovations
would come out of the Unity saga?
Bob:
A wise man once told me (actually, it was Steve Massarsky) that, "success
is a lot harder to manage than failure." Massarsky had worked with various
rock & roll bands over the years (like Aerosmith and the Allman Bros.) and
watched them slowly self-destruct as they became more and more successful.
In
truth, that could easily be the catch phrase that epitomizes the Valiant Era.
At our peak in 1993, we had 18 artists in Knob Row and almost two hundred
employees overall.
After
Unity, the sales figures were still not enough to make up for the huge debt load
we owed Triumph. Jim's spending was spinning out of control. The initial investment by Triumph was for only two million
dollars. By Unity, we owed them over four million and they were not happy with
us --not one bit.
As
far as innovations, most of them came after Shooter had departed.
Issue
O. Chrominum Cover. Valiant
Signature Series. Gold Logo program. To
say
Valiant was revolutionary in ideas is probably an understatement.
How
did
such innovations come about? How
well did some do compared to others?
What
was your personal favorite? Was
there anything that really didn't
work?
As
far as failures--Deathmate and Birthquake were unmitigated disasters. Not
necessarily in the numbers, but in the consequences of their release.
I'm
just going to toss some numbers out: Deathmate: Nearly a million copies
for
each issue; Rai and the Future Force: 900,000 copies, X-O #0: 900,000
copies,
and Turok #1: 1,750,000 copies. What
was the reaction to publishing
this
many comics of just one issue? Why
the need to print nearly 2 million
Turok
issue ones? Was it merely because
of the 'spectator bubble' that so
many
were produced or did Valiant feel that nearly that amount could
honestly
reach the hands of that many comic readers?
Bob:
Shortly after Shooter departed, and our sales began to skyrocket.
I recall sitting in a meeting with Hartz and Massarsky were we mutually
agreed never to print over 500,000 copies of any of our titles.
I harped on the fact that they numbers that Marvel was drawing on the
X-Men were not reflective of the number of actual readers in the comics market.
Of
course, greed--is a bitch. Eventually,
the temptation became simply too great to resist and they we printing to
speculator demands. That proved to have huge negative repercussions down the
road.
As
the man overseeing all of the books, what were your personal favorites?
Bob:
Dr Mirage. I still stand by it as the best thing I've ever done--next to
Future Comics, of course.
Around
what point in Valiant's productions was the downward spiral of the
industry
noticed? Was there any plans put
into effect to try and combat the
dropping
sales?
What
was the prompt to sell the company to Acclaim? What were the benefits
of
this sale for Valiant? (And
probably skipping ahead a few questions,
but,
were those benefits all achieved in the end?)
Bob:
I'm going to tell you exactly what happened and why we had no control over the
sale of the company:
Triumph,
by the end of '93, had made a small fortune off of Valiant.
We were netting around 30 million a year and they had more than satisfied
their investors. If you understand
how venture capital works, they are always short-term investors.
Once Triumph had made sufficient profits, they ordered Massarsky to sell
the company--they wanted out. They were in the venture capital business--not the
publishing biz.
They
didn't give us a choice.
Steve
and I met with a variety of potential new owners.
Unfortunately, the highest bidder was Acclaim.
The"
geniuses" at Acclaim paid 65 million for us--although, if they had done
their homework, they would have discovered that we were only valued at around 30
million.
Only
after they acquired us did we find out that they had attempted to buy
Image (who Acclaim felt matched their video game demographics), but were laughed
out of their offices. Then, some braintrust there got the idea to buy Valiant
--and eventually turn us into a carbon-copy of Image.
Since
Steve, Jon and I were the major private stockholders of Valiant, we all got
millions from the sale of the company. However, the way the deal was setup, the
money was placed in escrow and paid out in one/fifth increments over the five
year term of our employment agreements.
Of
course, as you know from history, they mismanaged our company into ruin.
Halfway
through my third year, I sued Acclaim for 'obstruction of duties' and wound-up
giving the lion's share of the money back in the settlement, in order to get out
of the job and as far away from Acclaim as possible.
What are your thoughts on: Deathmate? Chaos Effect? Birthquake?
Bob:
Here what you
don't know about that time at Valiant/ Acclaim:
I literally had nothing to do with most of those projects.
Deathmate was thrust upon us because Massarsky and Jim Lee were best
buddies at the time and had privately arranged the crossover.
The project was jammed down out throats and we did our best to
comply--although most Valiant creators thought it was a bad idea.
On top of that, they (Image) couldn't make a deadline with a gun to their
head. At one point, I wound-up flying to L.A. and sitting on Rob Leifield's
doorstep--literally refusing to leave until he penciled his part of the
Deathmate Prologue. I had to ink
that chapter of the book in a hotel room in Anaheim. What a pain in the ass that was!
There I was, with my own company to manage, and I was in California,
managing someone else's people. I
look back at it and can't believe some of the shit I had to put up with as
E.I.C. of Valiant.
Shortly
after that, I got into a shouting match with Greg Fischbach, the C.E.O. of
Acclaim, when he started allowing his suits to make wholesale changes in the
characters and premises of our books.
Greg,
in his infinite wisdom, removed most of my authority and gave it to Massarsky
and Hartz. He couldn't fire me,
because he'd have to pay me the full term of my contract.
So-- he basically locked me in my office for the next year and a half.
During that time, I played video games and read boating magazines, while
they continued to pay me 12K a month in salary for doing absolutely nothing.
I
literally had nothing to do with Birthquake--thank goodness.
If
you look back at it, you can see the point where I no longer influenced the
line. It sticks out like a sore
thumb.
Not only that, but Steve had made some really expensive contracts with the creatives on Birthquake--some receiving a ridiculous 20K per issue. However, the numbers remained abysmal. The company was losing it's shirt big time over Birthquake.
When
was the decision made to go forth and cancel all of the books for a
reboot?
Bob:
As I stated earlier, I was suing the parent company for "Obstruction of
Duties', so my days were certainly numbered.
Steve was interviewing replacements for my position, but he needed
someone who could act as a deal-breaker on the costly Birthquake creator deals.
A revamp of the entire line gave them the ability to cancel those expensive
contracts.
Once
Steve settled on Fabian, they went about the process of deconstructing the
company.
Look--Steve
is still my friend and I don't blame him for the decisions he had to make…as
painful as I'm sure they were. The truth is that, by this time, Steve and Jon
were merely doing time--waiting for their escrow to come to term so they could
get out. I don't think they gave a
rat's ass about the company by then.
However,
everyone did get what they wished for with VH2:
I got out of the company with my integrity and self-respect intact, Steve
and Jon got their millions and Acclaim got what they always wanted--dumbed-down
versions of our properties.
Over
the past two years, Valiants have gone on the rise again.
While most
common
books you can find in quarter bins, the search has been on for the
pre-Unity
books, rare final issues of the original line, most of the
Variants,
and nearly all of the TPBs (the runs having been very limited
also). What is your reaction to the increases of the value of these
comics.
Do
you think it's because of the sudden interest in all things 80's (like
the
resurrection of G.I. Joe and Transformers) or do you believe this has
been a long time coming?
Bob:
I know that sounds harsh-- but I've
moved on. Don't get me wrong: I
loved those characters but, at some point, I had to distance myself from it and
get on with my career.
Future Comics is my "baby" now and I find that many people compare us to the "glory days" of Valiant. I take that as a supreme compliment and a vindication of my influence on the Valiant line of books.
In
a honest opinion, do you think these characters will see the light of day
ever
again? Acclaim Entertainment, in a
whole, has not been doing that well
over
the past few years in their videogame line.
Their stock has plummeted
and
they are even close to being removed from the NASDAQ.
Over the past
three
years they've produced just 2 comics, Turok tie-ins with very low
runs. It's quite probable that Acclaim will never publish these
characters
again,
since they were barely breaking even with the comics when they were
publishing.
Do you foresee these characters ever being bought by another
company?
Bob:
They'll surface again. Look at Gold Key's
influence on the Valiant line as an example.
Given
that Acclaim Entertainment is inevitably doomed to failure, it's possible that
those characters will go onto the auction block one day.
Thank
you very much again for your time and I look forward to hearing back
from
you.